tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post2275379474023349831..comments2023-12-31T04:10:49.722-08:00Comments on Antinatalism- The Greatest Taboo: Should Drug Addicts Be Sterilized?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-52463066836425745002010-09-16T21:16:54.924-07:002010-09-16T21:16:54.924-07:00Sorry for the multi post. I kept getting Google er...Sorry for the multi post. I kept getting Google errors!Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758430080233229863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-68657571451025818002010-09-16T21:10:08.538-07:002010-09-16T21:10:08.538-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758430080233229863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-38188302269170779592010-09-16T21:08:55.752-07:002010-09-16T21:08:55.752-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758430080233229863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-20252388433455226472010-09-16T21:08:23.162-07:002010-09-16T21:08:23.162-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758430080233229863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-32680013878628184572010-09-16T21:07:17.724-07:002010-09-16T21:07:17.724-07:00I tend to agree with you Filrabat. Of course, in t...I tend to agree with you Filrabat. Of course, in the safety of this little community here, I see no reason why we shouldn't vent our specific feelings about the world now and again. When it comes to the real world and face to face encounters though, I always use my "happy go lucky" bullshit facade. That way other humans can't so easily label me an existential weakling and write off everything meaningful that I have to say. That's really all the practical use I have for making the best of a bad situation. Of course, occasionally I do get lucky and find some pleasant distraction :)<br /><br />I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the game series called Silent Hill. It's one of those creepy and deeply disturbing mind-fuck games in the horror genre that I played once upon a time. I remember thinking at the time, how eerily similar the whole scenario is to our reality. When the protagonist Harry Mason was in the "normal" part of the town, there was light, but never enough to fully illuminate much beyond maybe fifty feet around him. A thick and ever present fog occluded most of what he could see. Monsters would sometimes be lurking nearby... their presence betrayed by their own frightful vocalizations or the white noise emitted by Harry's hand held radio. The streets would abruptly terminate in a sheer bluff, so he couldn't leave despite his sense of impending doom. He might see gas and electric pipelines jutting out sharply next to a fallen street sign; yet no sign of the bottom. The whole place seemed strangely deserted, save for a few eccentric (and often megalomaniacal) residents. Those people who weren't out with an evil agenda were lost in a twisted world of their own creation. Left in limbo and doomed to wallow in their own self pity. When the darkness comes, a bombing siren sounds, and the world of Silent Hill reveals it's true self. Harry is able to see it for what it actually is; in all of it's full demonic dimension. Each time he defeats one of his demons he gets a small respite back in the limbo version of the town. The relative peace is short lived, however, and he once again finds himself running straight into the heart of darkness. You are left with the unsettling feeling that he never really leaves Silent Hill behind.<br /><br />The point I'm trying to make here is that I think many of us feel like Harry. We have a goal in mind, yet fear holds us back. So we opt instead, for limbo. We find ourselves constantly on the run from the beings that hunt us while we are here. We know we can't just go back to the way it was before the craziness began. Most opt for the easy way out, by pretending everything is just as it should be, OR better! They think by bringing more entities into the fray, things will somehow be alright. Some try to fight the fear and charge headlong into the stark contrast and hope that when/if they come out on the other side, that there will be some untold secret of the ages. Whatever our choices, all of us here face this darkness. To never have been... who among us was so fortunate? Not a single one.<br /><br />If anyone reading this can summon the strength to leave this darkness behind and put your faith in something higher than yourself, I admit that I am jealous. Faith, hope, God, and love may all be just a sham... but then again, so is everything else this world has to offer. Best wishes to you all.<br /><br />Still in the fight,<br />GarrettGarretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758430080233229863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-13905333063544212342010-09-16T17:52:22.421-07:002010-09-16T17:52:22.421-07:00Reacting negatively is one thing, but at least do ...Reacting negatively is one thing, but at least do it with calmness and rationality. Otherwise it'll make it tough..REALLY tough..for others to open their minds to what you and we have to say. Personally, I don't dismiss impassioned grievances as "mere whining", but most people do. It's sad that people are so lacking in empathy that they are that way, but that's just something we have to deal with. <br /><br />Given that the image of antinatalists is at stake, and given that we are by far in the minority position, we can't afford to turn off others with attitudes and tones society deems unworthy of respect. Better to just stick with dissecting grievances in such a way that it highlights the flaws of human nature.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630805408813112175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-86689004252695378892010-09-16T07:31:21.168-07:002010-09-16T07:31:21.168-07:00I have no need for this "big boys don't c...I have no need for this "big boys don't cry" rhetoric. Reacting negatively can be a perfectly appropriate response to the absolute horror of existence.The Plague Doctornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-46515422497705636822010-09-16T06:27:28.715-07:002010-09-16T06:27:28.715-07:00Kalik, Shadow,
I definitely see your point on a s...Kalik, Shadow,<br /><br />I definitely see your point on a strictly rational level: that antinatalism is based on a negative because its based on use of a negative grammitical operative: NOT (in this case "Do NOT have chidren". <br /><br />However, it doesn't follow that we should <i>react</i> negatively in the common everyday sense of the word (i.e. "your attitude is so negative!". Otherwise, we risk turning people completely off from antinatalism due to fostering the image "They're so bitter and angry, or so gloomy and doomy! Why should I take them seriously!" That's exactly what happens to so many other movements out there that are based on mere "I'm angry at the way the world is! It's so damened unfair!". <br /><br />I go into more detail about it on my new blog (pardon the self-reference, not meaning this to be a cheap attempt to get more traffic and I'm certainly not trying to divert attention from this one. We can discuss the issue here if you prefer).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630805408813112175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-34167164047299340562010-09-16T05:48:53.131-07:002010-09-16T05:48:53.131-07:00Kalki got it right.
Pessimism is the very founta...Kalki got it right. <br /><br />Pessimism is the very fountain for antinatalism.<br /><br />That doesnt mean that in practical life, one should not try to lead a good life, devoided of most harms one finds not enjoyable.Former Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-24668959049142787612010-09-16T05:18:53.859-07:002010-09-16T05:18:53.859-07:00filrabat:
I certainly agree being long faced and ...filrabat:<br /><br />I certainly agree being long faced and miserable is not a prerequisite for being an antinatalist. However, the whole idea is indeed based on a negative. Namely that life is so dreadful on whole that it is a moral imperative not to reproduce. If we water down the pessimism that few would dispute is the bedrock of antinatalism,I believe we undermine antinatalism itself.<br /><br />Please accept my comments in the spirit of constructive dialogue. I would welcome any replies.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10679323357178434306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-74576374596600752402010-09-15T15:35:32.180-07:002010-09-15T15:35:32.180-07:00"If it's any consolation, I don't thi..."If it's any consolation, I don't think spreading the word of antinatalism is tantamount to spreading depression."<br /><br />Agreed. Antinatalism should be about prevention suffering and alleviation: refusing childbirth is only a means to that end. Antinatalism should be about using the time and money otherwise devoted our kids and devoted to helping others and the wider community -- plus concentrating on pursuing our own happiness (activities, hobbies, books, speculating about how to live better lives and thinking of how to "build a better mousetrap", etc). <br /><br />In short, yeah, life may suck, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make the most of it. Making the most of it in good spirits and trying to have fun while on this earth WILL take at least the worst of the negative tarnish away from antinatalism - and perhaps even help eliminate the stereotype.<br /><br />No movement based on a negative succeeded. If we're not careful, antinatalism can easily become a movement based on negativity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630805408813112175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-48243821246012003662010-09-15T15:32:42.364-07:002010-09-15T15:32:42.364-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630805408813112175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-61714644561099191632010-09-15T05:03:28.578-07:002010-09-15T05:03:28.578-07:00Curator,
I agree.
Advantages or conforts are onl...Curator,<br /><br />I agree.<br /><br />Advantages or conforts are only about trying to make life bearable.<br /><br />In the end, every life has its stakes.Former Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-69953606723465530202010-09-14T10:19:50.828-07:002010-09-14T10:19:50.828-07:00I am interested in the question of whether parents...I am interested in the question of whether parents who knowingly bring disabled children into existence are morally worse than parents who bring nondisabled children into existence - which can be generalized to all quality-of-life issues, like whether rich parents are less morally blameworthy than poor parents.<br /><br />I suspect the magnitude of suffering experienced by any individual over a lifetime is so great that arguing over whether a parent failed to provide some advantage or other is a bit silly. The analogy that comes to mind is countries that execute political prisoners being judged for the quality of the last meal they provide.Sister Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003897317594535536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-48817158698120719422010-09-13T15:02:39.241-07:002010-09-13T15:02:39.241-07:00Is not even about the dwarfism or anything but abo...Is not even about the dwarfism or anything but about passing on to to other generation something that will seriously impair the life of another human being.Former Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-65585411069829296022010-09-13T12:46:33.455-07:002010-09-13T12:46:33.455-07:00"I would whack them both"
I would cut o..."I would whack them both"<br /><br />I would cut off all 4 of their limbs with a cutting torch, put out their eyes with a hot poker and rupture their eardrums with a hat pin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-88037021007211218302010-09-13T11:35:32.168-07:002010-09-13T11:35:32.168-07:00In between mu chronic bloating, diarrhea and nause...In between mu chronic bloating, diarrhea and nausea, I managed to been watching some segments from "The Little Couple". Does anyone else find this sort of thing sickening? <br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KT_chXX5KM" rel="nofollow">The Little Couple: Parents </a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ICod0HJxN0" rel="nofollow">The Little Couple: Surrogate Parenthood </a><br /><br />Talk about Russian Roulette! I agree with one of the YouTube commentors:<br /><br />"<i>If they decide to have a child together I will seriously hunt them down and step on em with my size 12. That kid will have to go through life as a knee high troll, just because their parents want to have a child of their own. That seems pretty selfish to me. If I grew up as their kid I would whack them both.</i>"The Plague Doctornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-36141430933191480172010-09-13T06:48:08.520-07:002010-09-13T06:48:08.520-07:00that´s some nice posts we got here.that´s some nice posts we got here.Former Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-42324024287161616112010-09-12T22:02:35.093-07:002010-09-12T22:02:35.093-07:00If it's any consolation, I don't think spr...If it's any consolation, I don't think spreading the word of antinatalism is tantamount to spreading depression. In my mind, by talking to people about this topic, one of two things can happen. Either the person is so deluded/brainwashed by our natalist culture that anything I say will go in one ear and out the other, and the recipient of my tidings will be none the worse (but also none the better) for it. The other possibility is that my words will strike a chord with the listener, and rather than depressing him/her, this individual will feel a sense of comfort and relief that he/she is "not alone" in this otherwise extremely alienating state of enlightenment. I'm sure that my view on this is strongly shaped by the fact that this is how *I* felt when I first stumbled into the morsels of antinatalist writings that exist online (here and at select other few sites, most of which happen to be linked on Jim's home page--heh heh). Somehow, having a virtual community of others who think like I do out there has truly made it easier for me to get through the day. So, if you sense that your nephew is already starting to sting from the futility, drudgery, and utter hopelessness of life, then he may be grateful to learn that it's ok to be a rational and honest person, even if makes life miserable, without the benefit of a sugar-coated veneer. He might just feel better knowing that he's not alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-52069377825844127462010-09-12T17:56:25.537-07:002010-09-12T17:56:25.537-07:00Once you get to this point you can never go back. ...Once you get to this point you can never go back. I feel like Agent Smith in the matrix:<br /><br />Me: "You must see it by now Mr parent! You can't win! It's pointless to keep breeding..Why mr anderson, WHY WHY WHY DO YOU KEEP BREEDING?!"<br /><br />Parent:"because i choose too"<br /><br /><br />*RAAAGE*<br /><br />Anyways, i kinda stopped spreading the message. It's sad though, when i look at my nephew i see the me 20 years ago. He's already depressed and shows signs of being "gifted". I love him but i just know he will suffer in life. My family has a HIGH rate of suicide/depression/mental illness and my sister threw the dice and it's my nephew that has to pay the price. He already asks questions about religion,god and i'm keeping my mouth shut..the more ignorant the better. I'd rather he be happy and a breeder, than miserable and an antinatalist. Then again, the vicious cycle continues. Well atleast my cycle ends:)BreederRerminatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-15700138961819752232010-09-10T06:57:26.299-07:002010-09-10T06:57:26.299-07:00Curator:
Thanks for your response to my post. Per...Curator:<br /><br />Thanks for your response to my post. Perhaps I should have stated that the vast majority of abortions are performed before the point most scientists think it is even possible for pain perception. One can Google "fetal pain" for much information on this subject.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10679323357178434306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-83302635618409384372010-09-09T12:44:30.520-07:002010-09-09T12:44:30.520-07:00I think it must be. Benatar leaves open the questi...I think it must be. Benatar leaves open the question of when someone comes into existence in a morally relevant way, only saying that it's not in the earliest stages of pregnancy. But I think the capacity to suffer is relevant to this inquiry. It is far from clear that the antinatalist position requires late-term abortions.<br /><br />I am not sure that the possibility of some fetal pain makes it okay not to have an abortion. But I think there is definitely a moral impetus to (a) practice effective birth control and (b) abort as early as possible if pregnancy occurs. And I think there is a moral duty to perform abortions in a way to minimize fetal pain.<br /><br />For me, I would have greatly preferred to have been aborted, even if it had caused me substantial pain. I understand that this is an unusual position, but I don't think the possibility of causing some pain to a semi-sentient being is a solid excuse for bringing that person into existence and dooming them to a human life.Sister Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003897317594535536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-39077919379483564932010-09-09T11:35:51.170-07:002010-09-09T11:35:51.170-07:00Is fetal pain, if it exists, a legitimate part of ...Is fetal pain, if it exists, a legitimate part of the antinatalism position?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10679323357178434306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-82341418836049316102010-09-09T11:31:36.802-07:002010-09-09T11:31:36.802-07:00Anonymous, you are rad. Score one for human decenc...Anonymous, you are rad. Score one for human decency.Sister Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003897317594535536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-354069516366024003.post-17706991736263762722010-09-09T07:42:47.655-07:002010-09-09T07:42:47.655-07:00Anon-
sure, 1 is a small number, but considering ...Anon-<br /><br />sure, 1 is a small number, but considering how much shit a typical human life contains, it's a pretty significant reduction in suffering. So, great job!<br /><br />I wonder how many people exist because no one would give their mothers a ride to the clinic... But I guess it still beats existing because of a power outage.<br /><br />Shadow - <br /><br />I don't think he's the one who knocked her up...CMnoreply@blogger.com